Chief of the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine Kyrylo Budanov took part in the Third International Forum on Strategic Communications Kyiv Stratcom Forum 2024.

The annual event is organised by the Centre for Strategic Communication and Information Security.

• In a conversation with Yarema Dukh, the chief of Ukrainian intelligence:
• ● spoke about russia’s strategic information and psychological operations;
• ● outlined the main tasks of Ukraine in the information sector;
• ● expressed his views on the Telegram messenger;
• ● commented on the causes and consequences of the terrorist attack in the moscow region;
• ● explained the role of the special service in countering the aggressor in the information sphere.

STRATEGIC INFORMATION OPERATIONS OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

There are several strategic operations of an information-psychological, propaganda nature conducting by russia. One of them is called “Perun”. This is its official name in russia. In turn, it is combined with a large operation that they called “Maidan-3”. They have a hard time with their imagination.

Unfortunately, we must admit that it works in principle. And we need to analyse what and whom such fakes are aimed at. Yes, we are here watching and listening to this absurdity. There is nothing else but a smile and bewilderment to have from such stories. But in russia, this is taken quite seriously.

In countries that take, let’s say, a more or less neutral position, this is all replicated, officially shown by their propaganda. This is shown at official events in russian embassies, and so on.

Unfortunately, we must admit that this gined certain results. So this is not such a funny story.

The main task here in Ukraine is to protect Ukrainian citizen from all this, and to give the proper explanation ― where there is at least some semblance of truth, and where there is outright fake news.

“CROCUS CITY HALL”

The russians changed their version three times. In addition, there are, let’s say, conclusions from belarus which also somewhat undermines [the kremlin’s] last statement. However, it should be mentioned that the official statement made by putin, said that it was allegedly Islamists, but there is still some kind of “trace”.

After that patrushev and bortnikov’s explanations emerged as both accused me personally of that it was all done by Ukraine. This is nonsense.

By the way, if we have already touched on this painful issue – even though it is an enemy – I disapprove terrorist attacks against civilians in principle. It is fundamentally wrong. This is my personal opinion. And maybe not everyone will agree with it, but I think this way.

As for how it all happened. First of all, I want to say everyone: at least since February 15, 2024, the russian federation has been aware about the preparation for terrorist attack. Maybe, they did not know that this particular shopping centre would be attacked. Maybe, they did not know the scale. I admit that they thought it would be a little bit easier. But since February 15, the russian federation knew for sure that such an operation was being prepared.

They knew where the combat groups would come from. How they moved to the territory of russia via two countries. They were undergoing pre-training in one of them, and they knew this too. So, now to say that we did it is simply not serious.

Why did they allow this to happen? There are several options. The first is, as is customary among them, an infighting between ‘kremlin towers’ to remove several high-ranking officials now. Another option is that they actually underestimated the scale of what would happen. They thought that the incident would be more local, and wanted to blame Ukraine for it.

There is such a stable expression, I’d say, truth. It always circulates in intelligence circles: everyone tries to create controlled chaos. Absolutely all more or less serious organizations have tried to do this at different times. And the axiom is that none of them could make it controlled. The same thing happened here.

PARTICIPATION OF INTELLIGENCES IN PUBLIC COMMUNICATION

In order to disrupt certain actions, it is a standard practice in many countries to issue information warning. That is, information is partially made public so that people, who are planning to organise something, understand that it is already known and that it will not succeed. This is a standard technique for any special services.

PRINCIPLES OF STRATEGIC INTELLIGENCE COMMUNICATION

We never turn white into black and from black to white. This is what we stand for. That is, we never create a substitute for reality, as russia does.

It is quite possible that sometimes we can try to explain something more, to emphasise something where we think it is necessary. But we have never distorted the information even once.

It is just a matter of presenting a fact that does not exist as the truth and doing all your actions around it ― we never do that. And it works, because russia is throwing out a lot of fake news, and having more or less truthful information from us, it has less effect to some extent.

If they had made fewer blatant fakes from the very beginning, they would have been listened to more. But thank God, they made this mistake.

THE IMPACT OF COMMUNICATION ON THE COURSE OF WAR

I’m all for the idea that if you can’t stop it, you have to lead it. This is my approach to this issue. However, there are situations that can neither be led nor stopped. We also need to accept that this is the case.

No matter what we do here, we will not be able to completely destroy the line of russian propaganda. It will still be there. They have enough financial and human resources for this in many countries around the world. This is coming not only from russia, but also from their agents of influence in other countries.

It’s a massive machine, with a tremendous amount of media resources. For example, russia today – just look at how many offices it has and in which countries. And this is only the visible part. And how much is hidden, how much goes through, ostensibly, art and so on.

Look at russian films that are not connected to the war: almost every film has at least one narrative of purely hostile propaganda. Take any movie you want, and you will find it [the narrative]. Even in comedies.

“INFORMATION ISOLATION” UNITS

There is a concept in russia, it is not far-fetched at all, but quite official one, as they say, – “information isolation”. For this purpose, the relevant units have been created. They are definitely in the system of the russia’s ministry of defence. They operate in combat areas; they are also exist in many different branches of government.

The task of “information isolation” is to turn the world inside out, as I call it, to completely cut off the population from the truthful information, and give them only what is needed at a particular moment. They change their positions very often, but no one is interested in it [anymore].

It is possible to fight against this in our controlled territories. But, in the uncontrolled territories, unfortunately, it is unrealistic. And this will also be a big problem after their liberation, because the brainwashing is quite serious.

INFORMATION RESISTANCE IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES OF UKRAINE

Unfortunately, it is absolutely unrealistic. This is my opinion. Perhaps someone does not share it. But knowing how the “information isolation” units work, seeing how they have already worked it out there...

By the way, these are algorithms that russia has been using for about 500 years, as strange as it may sound.

The first thing they are doing now is confiscating all literature, textbooks and so on. This is all the “destruction of national identity”.

Then there is switching over TV broadcasting, restricting the Internet and replacing all this with their own content. All these factors have already been implemented.

So, when a person is cut off from one information, historical and cultural cluster and is absorbed in another, then bad processes take place. Unfortunately, this is happening. There is no need to be afraid of this, because it all comes back in the same way. But it will take time.

We must counteract the russians, but we need to understand that there will be no such effect as everyone dreams of. A person is under the influence of this propaganda 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And if some small message reaches him or her, yes, this supports someone, that, you know, there is hope. But nothing more.

We must work, but do not overestimate what will happen. This is an objective reality. When you just turn off everything for a person and give them two or three channels with 24/7 images that you want to show them, they start to believe in it.

“TELEGRAM”

Everyone reads Telegram. In many ways, it has a destructive effect here inside, but but it’s also a way to communicate something to people over there. This is something that works more or less.

From a national security perspective, [Telegram] is definitely a problem, while I am absolutely against the restrictions on freedom of speech. But this is too much: anyone can create a Telegram channel and start broadcasting whatever they want. Absolutely anything they want and when they start to do something, they hide behind the fact that it’s freedom of the media. It’s not media freedom. It’s called something else.

To my mind, one of the options is to make everyone to officially register. If you want to be a media outlet, please register. There is nothing to hide if you want to convey your point of view, the truth. This will fix the situation a little bit.

COUNTERACTING HOSTILE CONTENT

We will not be able to block everything they do. It’s completely unrealistic, and those who take on this task will simply waste time. It is impossible. It’s technically impossible. You can’t just turn them off. This is no longer realistic. So the only option left is to counteract.

As for counteracting: consolidation around at least one body will play a major role in countering this, that will lead this work. For example, the Centre for Strategic Communication and Information Security. If it is aware of the actual situation, and if there is normal communication between all participants, as they say, in this process, then a more or less unified message can be developed.

And it will work.

COMMUNICATION ON “INCIDENTS” IN RUSSIA

We never directly say that, look, we did this. You won’t find this on our official website.

When the warships were sinking, it is clear: we posted footage from water drones. This is an element of propaganda. You have to understand me too. But in all other cases, there is hardly some hint, some experts may say that we heard something, but I have never said: look, we did this. This is a little bit wrong and unprofessional, in my opinion.

I say again, there are hints. Why is this necessary? Perhaps to support themselves, because after two and a half years of war, people also need to believe in victory, to believe that it is possible.

FAITH IN VICTORY

People must believe in victory. Without faith in victory, it is impossible to win. Of course, we need weapons and money – everything is necessary. But without faith in victory, it is absolutely unrealistic.

Give a person the most modern weapons – if he (or she) does not believe – he (or she) will simply turn around and go somewhere else, so to speak. Faith is the foundation.

UKRAINE’S TASKS IN GLOBAL COMMUNICATION

We have a “hot” topic, as they say, which is the Crocus City, the tragedy that happened. It needs to be explained now, because right now russia is launching a massive attack on everyone, mostly Western media, explaining to Western society that this is a terrorist attack that was organised – it’s interesting how they say this – “by the Western world and Ukraine”, and this is aimed at a Western audience. This is, in principle, a task very feasible, but they are trying to do it.

And the fact that Western society is more or less uninvolved, in principle, will be believed very quickly in the West, while the fact that Ukraine is not involved can be perceived in two ways. So we need to break this narrative.

Once again, I tell you all that at least since February 15, 2024, russia knew about the preparations. I will tell you even more. This information passed through the intelligence department of russia’s grouping in Syria. From there it was forwarded to moscow. So they shouldn’t be telling fairy tales that this all materialized in a strange way out of nowhere.

The second [thing] is to break the narrative that russia is a huge country that has never lost anything, that it will not give back anything that it once captured, and that to fight against russia is an unrealistic task. It is a waste of time, money, resources, people, and so on.

This is the second main narrative, which, unlike the first, (which is situational), is permanent. It also needs to be broken.

Ukraine’s inability to win and russia’s inability to lose are not true.

If you just look at history ― and I’m not talking about ancient history ― even not so long ago, there are many cases where what is now called the russian federation lost very painfully. So looking at these two narratives are, in my opinion, key now.

[The issue of russian assets and weapons for Ukraine] ― these are all serious processes, which will somehow depend a little bit on the information background, but there are completely different levers of influence.

There is no need to waste much time on this, because it will happen as it will, not so bad for us, to be honest. But this is not the main thing. The main thing is [to destroy] the narrative that russia cannot lose, and it follows that Ukraine cannot win. This is the whole point.

WILL ANYTHING CHANGE FOR UKRAINE IF PUTIN DIES

It’s a rhetorical question. Nothing will change quickly, I can tell you that. With the drastic changes in russia, their attitude to the world, their worldview cannot change drastically. Understand that they have actually become victims of their own propaganda. It happened, they recognise it, let’s just say.

This will never go anywhere in public, but they have maximized the situation. They have an expression, in the original language, that says: “We have overestimated our army to the maximum, pumped it up and believed in its capabilities. And we underestimated our economy as much as possible. As a result, our army is not very good, to put it mildly, and the economy is, in principle, very good.”

Society is pumped up with hatred of the collective West and Ukraine. Even if there is a person who says: “You know, let’s stop!”, and even if everything stops, this hatred will seriously influence all decision-making for many years to come. Because they will all be based on the position that they are enemies.

And by the way, we will have the same thing. You must also understand this. Even though we don't hide it at all. [Let's imagine] that everything has stopped, that russia has apologised – who will believe russia in a year’s time? These are irreversible processes that have already taken place in society. It takes years and years, as well work.

The Second World War was over. Now, I think, few people look at the Germans as enemies. But it took time, and everything became normal. But in the 1950s, it was hard to find a person who looked at Germany at that time as a friend. So, everything passes over the years. And these are difficult processes.

ADDRESSING TO COMMUNICATORS

Keep working, colleagues. Keep working – and, please, unite in the end, because this multi-vector approach causes a lot of problems, believe me.

At least unite around this Centre for Strategic Communication and Information Security. In my opinion, it is a neutral structure that does not cause any negative feelings. This is not cooperation with the special services, or cooperation with other bodies, and so on.

We need to work together to protect our society from the destructive propaganda, which russia and other countries – and we must not forget this – are trying to achieve their goals by force.

Just come together. This is not such a difficult task. Just come. Communicate together. Have meetings. Develop a basic plan. There is no need to tell anyone what to do – you are all professionals and adults, serious people. But there must be a general line – nothing will work without it.